User:Rootbeer/Zendo-Tao

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It may be easier to compare koans on the koan index of this page.


0
http://img234.echo.cx/img234/5505/blackstone2ht.jpg
0
1 1
http://img197.echo.cx/img197/4504/whitestone3fm.jpg

This is a new game (the first "real" game) of Zendo-Tao. For fun, I've decided to start with the same three koans as the sample game uses, although I'm marking them differently. — Rootbeer (Tom) (U | T | C) 21:25, 11 Aug 2005 (GMT)


2
http://img234.echo.cx/img234/5505/blackstone2ht.jpg
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OK. The rule is not AKHTBN if there is only one small piece . For my next koan, I'd like a flat large green piece alone, please. Apolgies for the inconvience.--ManyHills 09:45, 12 Aug 2005 (GMT)

No inconvenience. If I didn't want to make an image for you, I wouldn't. But somebody else would, I'm sure. Cheers! — Rootbeer (Tom) (U | T | C) 17:04, 12 Aug 2005 (GMT)

3
http://img234.echo.cx/img234/5505/blackstone2ht.jpg

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2747/koanlg4uw.th.jpg
3 http://tinyurl.com/74wrc

Koan 3 denies AKHTBN if at least one piece is flat. — Rootbeer (Tom) (U | T | C) 20:30, 12 Aug 2005 (GMT)


4
http://img234.echo.cx/img234/5505/blackstone2ht.jpg
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The rule is not AKHTBN iff it contains a yellow piece. Could the next koan be a large, flat green pointing at a small, upright yellow? Thanks in advance.--ManyHills 13:39, 13 Aug 2005 (GMT)


5
http://img234.echo.cx/img234/5505/blackstone2ht.jpg

http://img321.imageshack.us/img321/2912/koanlgsy3re.th.jpg
5 http://tinyurl.com/aygym

Koan 5 eliminates AKHTBN if at least one piece points at a small yellow. How long will it be before we find another koan with the Buddha nature? — Rootbeer (Tom) (U | T | C) 15:59, 13 Aug 2005 (GMT)


6
http://img234.echo.cx/img234/5505/blackstone2ht.jpg
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I asked the Master whether AKHTBN unless it contains large green piece, but that wasn't the rule. — Rootbeer (Tom) (U | T | C) 21:44, 14 Aug 2005 (GMT)


http://img214.echo.cx/img214/5753/koanlymrb5tr.th.jpg
7 http://tinyurl.com/bmnq6

7
http://img197.echo.cx/img197/4504/whitestone3fm.jpg

The rule is not AKHTBN if it has no green or blue pieces. I'm going out on a limb here... this is my first foray into Zendo-tao, as well as Zendo itself. A thousand humble pardons if I disturb the tranquility of the pond's mirrored surface. - Cerulean 13:16, 15 Aug 2005 (GMT)

For those of you who can't tell the sizes of the pieces in koan 7, the yellow piece is large, and the two other pieces are mediums. I had to stare at it awhile (and decipher the image's filename) to figure that out. - Cerulean 19:03, 25 Aug 2005 (GMT)

Koan 8 image request: a 2-pip yellow piece stacked atop a 3-pip blue piece, and a 1-pip red piece flat on the table pointing at the stack. To clarify that I've got this Zendo-tao thing right, my koan 8 can be marked white to satisfy one of my secret rules, and can be marked black to disprove one of my secret rules. Hey, I think I'm getting the hang of this! - Cerulean 13:16, 15 Aug 2005 (GMT)

To be sure, you should be able to mark koan 8 white to agree with one of your secret rules, and black to agree with another. Or, put another way, however koan 8 is marked, you will still have at least one viable secret rule. — Rootbeer (Tom) (U | T | C) 15:06, 15 Aug 2005 (GMT)
Oops, I had interpreted this as "having a rule that is reinforced if the koan is marked white, or a rule that is disproven if marked black". At the moment, I do not have a rule that is still true if koan 8 is marked black... yet. Is it too late to request a different koan? (Thanks for the super-speedy image delivery, by the way!) - Cerulean 15:29, 15 Aug 2005 (GMT)
Well, one flaw(?) of ZT is that a player may bluff. (I'm not sure yet whether this is of strategic use, but I doubt it.) You seem to have bluffed by accident. You can pull off a bluff successfully if A: you find a suitable rule or rules before you need them, or B: you never need them. You might still pull this one off. — Rootbeer (Tom) (U | T | C) 17:19, 15 Aug 2005 (GMT)
Okay, then. Upon further review, koan #8 will work just as well for me. No need to change it. I think your above wording about having three rules is clearer than the existing Zendo-tao rules. - Cerulean 19:09, 15 Aug 2005 (GMT)

8
http://img234.echo.cx/img234/5505/blackstone2ht.jpg

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/6089/koanlbmysr5lt.th.jpg
8 http://tinyurl.com/7kwh6

Oh, Master, could it be that AKHTBN if it contains yellow, but not green? That rule would be possible if koan 8 had the Buddha nature; but no. — Rootbeer (Tom) (U | T | C) 00:07, 21 Aug 2005 (GMT)


9
http://img234.echo.cx/img234/5505/blackstone2ht.jpg

http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/967/koanlgmrsy0rh.th.jpg
9 http://tinyurl.com/adnry

It seemed so easy: AKHTBN if it has a medium red piece. And then koan 9 had to spoil it. — Rootbeer (Tom) (U | T | C) 21:34, 23 Aug 2005 (GMT)


http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/1032/koanmgysbr5jv.th.jpg
10 http://tinyurl.com/a67ro

10
http://img197.echo.cx/img197/4504/whitestone3fm.jpg

The rule is not AKHTBN if it has at least one flat medium piece pointing at an upright piece. For koan 11, I request two medium pieces, both flat. One is red and the other is yellow. The red piece is pointing at the yellow piece, and the yellow piece is pointing in the same direction as the red piece. - Cerulean 17:02, 25 Aug 2005 (GMT)


11
http://img234.echo.cx/img234/5505/blackstone2ht.jpg

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/2489/koanmry5uv.th.jpg
11 http://tinyurl.com/ah8ep

And when I asked the Master whether AKHTBN if a yellow or red piece points at a yellow or red piece, the Master marked koan 11. — Rootbeer (Tom) (U | T | C) 20:13, 25 Aug 2005 (GMT)


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http://img234.echo.cx/img234/5505/blackstone2ht.jpg
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More specifically, the rule is not AKHTBN if a yellow or red piece points at a red or yellow piece of a different size. - Cerulean 13:52, 26 Aug 2005 (GMT)

You may have found the only two rules that remain. After some study, I've thought of two, but not a third. Would you like to reveal one of your rules and request the win, Cerulean? At this point, somebody else who sees two rules could steal the win from you. — Rootbeer (Tom) (U | T | C) 23:48, 4 Sep 2005 (GMT)
I'll wait a few days first before claiming victory. - Cerulean 12:43, 6 Sep 2005 (GMT)
Maybe I was unclear: I am "somebody else who sees two rules". Are you sure you want to wait? — Rootbeer (Tom) (U | T | C) 16:54, 6 Sep 2005 (GMT)

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http://img197.echo.cx/img197/4504/whitestone3fm.jpg

The rule is not AKHTBN if it has at least one non-large flat piece pointing at a grounded yellow piece of a different size. I now claim the victory. Can anyone refute my claim with a koan? - Cerulean 22:23, 8 Sep 2005 (GMT)

Can you simplify that? AKHTBN if a grounded yellow piece is targetted by at least one medium or small flat piece... well, I like that better. But it still seems ad hoc.
Clearly, this is one of the weakest features of ZT: One man's ad hoc rule is another's daily fare. Nevertheless, I hereby ask you to reword your rule, to retract it, to retract and replace it, or to defend it; whichever you see best. All bystanders and players are encouraged to offer opinions and advice.
My advice: You can simplify your rule a little and still have one that fits. Do you need to specify size, color, being pointed at, groundedness AND orientation? That's a lot of attributes to notice. An awful lot. Maybe you can find a way to drop most of them.
Cheers! — Rootbeer (Tom) (U | T | C) 23:30, 8 Sep 2005 (GMT)

Well, after a month of trying to re-write my previous rule, I can't seem to improve upon your last suggestion, Rootbeer. It appears any controversy over it is purely between us though. Anyway, time to revisit my notes on this game.... my remaining rule is AKHTBN if it has a red and a yellow piece of differing sizes, but no upright blue or green pieces. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. I'll admit both rules I'm using for the victory are not as elegant as you'd expect from a seasoned Zendo player, but writing clear and concise rules is a skill I hope to build upon. - Cerulean 02:52, 7 Oct 2005 (GMT)