Talk:Ley Lines of Mars

Scoring

I'm a little confused on scoring, can you rewrite it? It just comes out talking about diagonal lines without giving any context. Even something simple like "points are scored for complete, diagonal lines between all caps and the edge of the board." And then launch in to the rest of your description. A example here would be hugely useful. For instance, how would you score this completely random game:

.. = empty
X1 = first player, one pip
Y3 = second player, three pip  (you get the pattern)
<> = volcano cap

Y2 Y1 Y3 Y1 X3 <>
X2 <> X1 X3 Y3 Y3
Y2 Y1 X1 X3 X1 Y2
X2 X2 <> Y2 .. Y3
Y1 X2 X1 Y2 X2 <>
Y1 X3 <> X3 X1 Y3

• No way to tell the score from your example. Scoring occurs only for the placing player at the time of the placement.

So:

if the last piece placed was the Y3 on the bottom right, the second player would score 5 points for the nw/se diagonal.

if the last piece placed was the Y3 on the far right of the second row, the second player would score 8 points (3 for the nw/se diagonal, 5 for the sw/ne diagonal)

etc. Let me know if it's still not clear. It really is much simpler to do than to explain. I'll try and dig up graphic examples at some point. --Nycavri 13:54, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

Doh! In my haste yesterday the obvious fact that play order matters escaped me. You're right, it is pretty simple, but it's also really clunky to explain. My advice: rewrite your scoring section from scratch. Editing the current one will be like trying to glue an egg back together.

Donsheldon 08:09, 20 September 2007 (EDT)

• Thanks, Don - I'll look at a rewrite. I based my scoring text on the rules for Diagonals. (I'll dig up a link sooner or later.) Playtested with my wife last night, leading to the realization that I needed to expressly state that playing a Vlocano cap results in no score. Otherwise she picked it up pretty fast. As she, you and I have all mentioned, LLM is simpler to play than too explain! --Nycavri 10:50, 20 September 2007 (EDT)

• Don, I do want to rework the rules, but was in fact planning on doing it myself. Part of learning to design games is the creation of the rules, as well as finding a "voice". While I appreciate your help, and may use some of what you have offered, I am respectfully going to roll back your edit. I planned to include the Mega Volcano Board as an option (as well as the Chessboard Bandana), and am looking for a useful scoring example. As this may end up being my entry into the next IGDC, I really do want it to be "all my own work". No hard feelings, and your interest and efforts are appreciated. --Nycavri 16:58, 20 September 2007 (EDT)

It's cool. I was trying to decide between a whole lot of "why don't you do it like this..." here on the talk page and just doing it myself. The second choice seemed more in line with the spirit of wiki. So just consider all those edits as prefaced with "why don't you try something like this..." Donsheldon 08:42, 21 September 2007 (EDT)

• Thanks, Don. I did copy your edit to reference when I do a rewrite. The feedback from people actually playing the game has been good, but we are all in agreement that the rules need work! --Nycavri 10:05, 21 September 2007 (EDT)

David Artman On Equipment, Scoring and Format

Volcano Caps

Why use them, if you still end up with one empty square? Why not just tell folks to use stones or tokens and go up to six, to fill the board? You could then suggest Volcano Caps as good tokens, being opaque and gray and thus easily to distinguish from the (probably) colorful, transparent stashes.

• The "empty square" was intentional in trying to ease 1st/2nd player advantage. Adds another level of strategy that not every line will score. I likely will shift VCs to "optional", as coins or other markers work just fine. But it looks good, and is another game that tries to incorporate them . . . --Nycavri 15:28, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

Scoring

I agree that you should rewrite it. I had no idea that one scores during placement, when I read it; and the actual detail level provided to deal with special cases is confusing, when you don't know the normal case(s) of scoring.

• It's unanimous! I'll be getting to it after writing up the Martian 12s rules. --Nycavri 15:28, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

Format

I hope you will be writing the rules out in a more natural manner, rather than as an outline using unordered lists? A list should only be used when you are actually listing items or instructions, be they arbitrarily ordered (unordered) or an enumeration of a sequence. The overall rules of play of a game do not qualify as either of those (or, rather, if they do then EVERY document qualifies, ruining the purpose of using formatted lists).

And if you are wanting to find your "voice" per below, you'll get there faster writing naturally than by trying to boil rules down to "just the facts" in some kind of step-lock format.

Actually, the format here was inspired by the rules of Pylon, which are clear, consise and unambigous - I was hoping it would rub off! I'll try again. Thanks for your insight. Any thoughts on the game itself? --Nycavri 15:28, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

Pylon doesn't use a single list in its rules; did you mean something else?

As for the gameplay: I haven't tried because I really don't fully comprehend the game play (scoring). If it's more-or-less "score every time you make a two-piece or longer diagonal," like Scrabble-meets-TicTacToe, then it's fine enough, I suppose. Place-and-score games aren't really my bag, but I know that they often have strategic depth. Adding in the "blockers" tokens is an interesting element, making it a bit more Go-like. I'd have to really play it a few times, to offer any kind of advice about refinement. -David Artman 15:54, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

• Ah. Must have been the Diagonals rule set I was looking at. Regardless, I'll be taking another crack at this sooner rather than later. Hoping to get my "in Playtest" games live by year's end. --Nycavri 16:05, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

Board

Do the Martian Coasters have any special utility here beyond a convenient way to make a 6x6 grid? Wouldn't a Mega-Volcano board work just as well? --Carthoris 14:35, 9 January 2012 (UTC)